View Poll Results: Who would you vote for in a General Election?

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  • Fianna Fáil

    6 5.88%
  • Fine Gael

    12 11.76%
  • Sinn Féin

    16 15.69%
  • Labour

    46 45.10%
  • Green Party

    2 1.96%
  • Independent/Other

    13 12.75%
  • Would not vote

    7 6.86%
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Thread: General Election 2010 / 2011

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    No, postal voting is only for people working in embassys or on military service. I need to go home to vote
    Ah shame should be extended to everyone

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by chutneybear View Post
    I take issue with, and Gaz will no doubt go to town on me over this, their involvement (allegedly) with trerrorism over the years that happened within living memory. We all know about FF/FG and Co but SF?
    Why would I? Sinn Fein are/were a front for the IRA, an organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. If that's not terrorism, I don't know what is. Certainly I believe it was British Government policy to assist Loyalist Paramilitaries but that doesn't alter the fact that the Provisional IRA are/were a terrorist organisation. Pair of them in it.

    The fact that they had little to do the economic crisis doesn't alter the fact that they're a shower of two-faced scumbags.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClondalkinSaint93
    So the whole party is a terrorist organisation your sayin? Stop looking at history and look at the present then.
    The murder of Robert McCartney is hardly ancient history, happened only 5-6 years ago. A man out for a pint set upon and beaten to death by a gang of 8 men armed with iron bars because somebody in his company made a remark that somebody took offence to. All of them either Sinn Fein/IRA members of close associates of people that were.

    It is still a matter of fact that people and organisations who quite lawfully find themselves at odds with members and cronies of standing SF representatives find themselves threatened with violence and/or savagely beaten with baseball bats/hurleys/metal bars etc. Though of course when confronted about this, SF will claim that's a media hatchet job - an insult to the intelligence of the Irish public. SF has at its core a bunch of thugs who regard themselves as above the law - simple as. Don't ever want them within a country mile of government in this country and despite all they've done I'd vote for Fianna Fail ahead of them. (Not that either will actually get anything from me, but in a hypothetical situation where you had to rate very candidate).

  3. #213
    Administrator charliesboots's Avatar
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    People seem to forget that OIRA only decommissioned their weapons in 2010. There are plenty of prominent members of the Labour Party who were members of their political backers and elected to Dáil Éireann as such.

    There are also plenty within Fianna Fáil who were involved in providing weapons and cover to members of the IRA during the troubles. People in glass houses etc etc

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  5. #214
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    Well all parties usually emerge from voilent. its a case of how and why for me.

    And I should say that I'd prefer a Lab/SF government to a Lab/FG one

    But the point remains, that anyone who thinks that SF aren't still alligned somewhat with IRA needs to have their head examined

  6. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post
    People seem to forget that OIRA only decommissioned their weapons in 2010. There are plenty of prominent members of the Labour Party who were members of their political backers and elected to Dáil Éireann as such.

    There are also plenty within Fianna Fáil who were involved in providing weapons and cover to members of the IRA during the troubles. People in glass houses etc etc
    There is an important difference though CB. A great deal of Sinn Fein's voting appeal hinges on the unspoken understanding that they can 'solve' problems extrajudicially - ie by having a gang of scumbags batter shite out of someone they assume to be guilty of some alleged infringement on communities where the Gardai etc have little actual authority or effectiveness. The likes of Tomas McGiolla never campaigned on that ticket, they were Republicans but didn't ever try to gain from the lawlessness of some from within Republicanism.

  7. #216
    Administrator charliesboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    Well all parties usually emerge from voilent. its a case of how and why for me.

    And I should say that I'd prefer a Lab/SF government to a Lab/FG one

    But the point remains, that anyone who thinks that SF aren't still alligned somewhat with IRA needs to have their head examined
    I don't think anybody can seriously argue that but as an organisation the IRA doesn't exist any more and that's accepted by the IMC.

    There was a time when every member of SF was more or less a member or former member of the IRA. But even look at some of their high profile candidates now such as Mary Lou (who I can't abide) and Pearse Doherty who nobody would credibly claim to be members or ex-members of the IRA.

    I'll vote Labour and I would very much hope for a Labour led government but I think it's inherently dangerous to continue to slate a party, that has taken to democratic means, indefinitely. It's that type of politics that encourages dissident thinking

  8. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post
    There was a time when every member of SF was more or less a member or former member of the IRA. But even look at some of their high profile candidates now such as Mary Lou (who I can't abide) and Pearse Doherty who nobody would credibly claim to be members or ex-members of the IRA.
    But it isn't just the fact of whther they're members or not. For some its the fact that they're a single issue party. And a quick scoot around their policies confirm how light they are here. Doherty seems on the ball but generally any of their policy spokesmen/women get crushed by the big boys. Mainly because they simply don't care enough about most issues

    Do you think Baron Adams going for election in Louth helps their 'new' image?

  9. #218
    Administrator charliesboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    There is an important difference though CB. A great deal of Sinn Fein's voting appeal hinges on the unspoken understanding that they can 'solve' problems extrajudicially - ie by having a gang of scumbags batter shite out of someone they assume to be guilty of some alleged infringement on communities where the Gardai etc have little actual authority or effectiveness. The likes of Tomas McGiolla never campaigned on that ticket, they were Republicans but didn't ever try to gain from the lawlessness of some from within Republicanism.
    Are you saying the OIRA, of which MacGiolla was very much a part, wasn't engaged in lawlessness? Pull the other one Gaz.

    One of the problems in this country has been the willingness of all candidates, especially those in the 'legitimate' parties to use their ability to '"fix" things as an electioneering tool.

    Is taking bribes to allow for political favours at the expense of society any less morally reprehensible than a drug dealer getting a bat to the knees? I don't approve of either but we all know both went on and I'd expect the former to continue if certain parties stay in power more so than the latter.

  10. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post

    I'll vote Labour and I would very much hope for a Labour led government but I think it's inherently dangerous to continue to slate a party, that has taken to democratic means, indefinitely. It's that type of politics that encourages dissident thinking
    I'm not an advocate of shutting the door on SF permanently. However they and their membership have to truly abandon extrajudical beatings, racketeering, fuel smuggling, drug dealing, dealing in counterfeit cigarettes etc. I'm not saying those activities are Sinn Fein policy but SF has a massive ambivalence towards former IRA members (and often current SF members and activists) involved in such criminality. And that's fact, not Sindo or RTE propoganda.

  11. #220
    Administrator charliesboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    But it isn't just the fact of whther they're members or not. For some its the fact that they're a single issue party. And a quick scoot around their policies confirm how light they are here. Doherty seems on the ball but generally any of their policy spokesmen/women get crushed by the big boys. Mainly because they simply don't care enough about most issues

    Do you think Baron Adams going for election in Louth helps their 'new' image?
    Nope I think he could be a huge liability to them. I also think they're policies are shockingly weak on a national scale (local policies in some areas are an example to others) hence the reason I would vote Labour.

    My point was just that people will go on a moral crusade about their history because it's an easy target while ignoring the less than perfect history of others.

  12. #221
    Administrator charliesboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    I'm not an advocate of shutting the door on SF permanently. However they and their membership have to truly abandon extrajudical beatings, racketeering, fuel smuggling, drug dealing, dealing in counterfeit cigarettes etc. I'm not saying those activities are Sinn Fein policy but SF has a massive ambivalence towards former IRA members (and often current SF members and activists) involved in such criminality. And that's fact, not Sindo or RTE propoganda.
    How can you say it's fact. SF's membership certainly has its scumbag element but if anything they're trying to move away from that behaviour rather than being ambivalent. They've distanced themselves to a huge degree from all the stuff you mention.

  13. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post
    Are you saying the OIRA, of which MacGiolla was very much a part, wasn't engaged in lawlessness? Pull the other one Gaz.
    No, I'm saying the likes of Mac Giolla, in deed if not words, was part of a strain of the OIRA that wanted to disassociate itself from the criminal element within the Stickies. He didn't campaign on the unspoken assumption that young offenders etc would be taking a thrashing of a gang of stickies if he got in. It was clear he wanted away from that whilst retaining his Republican principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post
    One of the problems in this country has been the willingness of all candidates, especially those in the 'legitimate' parties to use their ability to '"fix" things as an electioneering tool.
    I'd have said that's the case in every democracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post
    Is taking bribes to allow for political favours at the expense of society any less morally reprehensible than a drug dealer getting a bat to the knees? I don't approve of either but we all know both went on and I'd expect the former to continue if certain parties stay in power more so than the latter.
    No it isn't but then FF nor anyone else ever tried to appeal to voters by implying they'd get things done through bribery. SF unquestionably have gained support from a portion of the electorate on account of their association with criminal gangs and the implication/assumption that they'd 'sort out' issues.

  14. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliesboots View Post
    How can you say it's fact. SF's membership certainly has its scumbag element but if anything they're trying to move away from that behaviour rather than being ambivalent. They've distanced themselves to a huge degree from all the stuff you mention.
    In words, yes. In deed, not at all. I know of former work colleagues of mine who are still routinely subjected to intimidation and damaging of their property when doing their job of maintaining phone masts in border areas. There isn't a shadow of a doubt who's responsible. A friend of a mate of mine had the misfortune to be the victim of fraud by a relative of a Sinn Fein representative in North County Dublin. Since he attempted to take the matter to court he has been subjected to any amount of intimidation towards himself and his staff from people who will be this evening knocking on doors asking people to vote Sinn Fein. That's the calibre of what you're dealing with.

  15. #224
    Administrator charliesboots's Avatar
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    Not going to get into the multi quoting but Mac Giolla was a member of the Army Council of OIRA - it was De Rossa, Gilmore etc who tried to move them away from association with OIRA, Mac Giolla disagreed. By saying there were elements in the stickies that he tried to move them away from is exactly the same as the present SF leadership who are trying to move away from the previous goings on.

    I used "fix" in the same way you used "sort out". FF have definitely tried to use their ability to get things done through bribery to both attract political donations and votes from people (of who there are many) who see nothing wrong with being able to buy their way through life.

  16. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by chutneybear View Post
    Ah shame should be extended to everyone
    So thousands of people who dont have to live with the consequences daily can decide who runs the country.
    Yeah, thats a shame.

  17. #226
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    Gaz, check out "The Lost Revolution" by Brian Hanley and Scott Millar, published in 2009. Goes into a fair amount of detail about "Group B" as the Stickies were known after they "officially" ceased to exist. SFWP, the WP and probably DL when they split were all well aware of the importance of Group B's fundraising efforts to keep the party going. Only difference between them and SF / Provos was they were better at hiding the link. MacGiolla and Adams were both on their respective Army Councils, maybe not constantly and maybe with breaks for "optics", but the point remains.

    Not that any of that's relevant any more. Even Baron Adams would probably now concede that they have gone away, you know.

  18. #227
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    Last edited by SVM; 3rd February 2011 at 07:35 PM.

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  20. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    There is an important difference though CB. A great deal of Sinn Fein's voting appeal hinges on the unspoken understanding that they can 'solve' problems extrajudicially - ie by having a gang of scumbags batter shite out of someone they assume to be guilty of some alleged infringement on communities where the Gardai etc have little actual authority or effectiveness. The likes of Tomas McGiolla never campaigned on that ticket, they were Republicans but didn't ever try to gain from the lawlessness of some from within Republicanism.
    I have to agree with Gaz on that one and just add a point in. It has been well known that they are seen to take matters into their own hands as regards drug dealers etc. There has been anecdotal evidence that they would move in on the drug dealers, knock the bollix out of them and then move in on their patch (i.e. The IRA). Another reason why I lack respect is , and I know this may seem quite bizzare over one incident but the lack of apology from Sinn Fein for the murder of Jean Mc Conville and the insitence of a lot of their supporters that she was some kind of informant.

    On a related note their economic manifesto is nothing but populist bollix, its like Family Fortunes, ask a 100 people what should go into a manifesto and then peddle it out as your own. Baron Adams was on TV a few weeks back and I have read that he didnt know what the VAT rate was down here in the South,as for the quality of other candidates,remember Mary Lou was involved in allegedly refusing to condemn the killings of Robert Mc Cartney. As Clondalkin Saint said, if they go great for your area then all well in good but just remember the bigger picture.

  21. #229
    Curtis Fleming
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    Just a thought.
    Isn't it a sign of the times all the same, that, after all the points raised about Sinn Fein (including those in this thread), there are still more people prepared to vote for them than Fianna Fail?

    We've got to the stage now, where it's ABFF.
    (And in my opinion it should also be ABFG too!)

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  23. #230
    Harry Boland kdjac's Avatar
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    Independant Gino Kenny has neilstown in the bag. Can see other indies landsliding their areas too.

  24. #231
    Curtis Fleming
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdjac View Post
    Independant Gino Kenny has neilstown in the bag. Can see other indies landsliding their areas too.
    Yep. Reckon People Before Profit will get 3 or 4 in.

  25. #232
    Colm Foley
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    shoot the lot of dem and put mullers in charge

  26. #233
    Martin Russell
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdjac View Post
    Independant Gino Kenny has neilstown in the bag. Can see other indies landsliding their areas too.
    There is always the danger that if Independent candidates get elected on local issues they become the Healy Ray of their area and are of little use, and may even damage the country in general.

  27. #234
    Harry Boland kdjac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richsaint View Post
    There is always the danger that if Independent candidates get elected on local issues they become the Healy Ray of their area and are of little use, and may even damage the country in general.
    Because the parties have done a better job?

  28. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdjac View Post
    Because the parties have done a better job?
    The independents never managed the country.

    Voting for a local independent is fine if he/she can make a difference to your area. But this is exactly what Healy Ray was rightly criticized for.

  29. #236
    Curtis Fleming
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richsaint View Post
    The independents never managed the country.

    Voting for a local independent is fine if he/she can make a difference to your area. But this is exactly what Healy Ray was rightly criticized for.
    Just to clarify yeah? Gino Kenny is not an independent. He's with a party - People Before Profit. They do a lot in the community alright. But their policies are national. Burning the bondholders is one of them. They've joined forces with other left parties in this election under the banner of a 'United Left Alliance'.

  30. #237
    Martin Russell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddydillon View Post
    Just to clarify yeah? Gino Kenny is not an independent. He's with a party - People Before Profit. They do a lot in the community alright. But their policies are national. Burning the bondholders is one of them. They've joined forces with other left parties in this election under the banner of a 'United Left Alliance'.
    I wish him well so and hopefully the United Left Alliance will get enough votes to actually burn the bondholders. Who else is in the United left Alliance.

  31. #238
    Curtis Fleming
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richsaint View Post
    I wish him well so and hopefully the United Left Alliance will get enough votes to actually burn the bondholders. Who else is in the United left Alliance.
    http://www.unitedleftalliance.org/

    http://www.peoplebeforeprofit.ie/

  32. #239
    Martin Russell
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    Did they have a meeting in O'Connell Street at the O'Connell monument the same day as the Union protest march?

  33. #240
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    Was reading a political blog earlier on that reckons Dublin South Central will return one ULA, two Labour, one SF with the fifth seat up for grabs between a third Labour or one from either FF or FG. If Labour get the fifth seat, I reckon that'd mean it'd be the most left-wing constituency in the country - in which case the Carkies can keep their Peoples Republic, we'll have the Peoples Soviet.

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