Tonight's Football Part II

[Dodge]

when you look at the price of other forms of entertainment I think it is reasonably priced, especially if like me you watch a lot of different sports. A night in the cinema, pub, take away etc would all cost more than a month of sky. I basically don't watch anything bar the sports channels so its well worth it.

yeah, I've regretted it a couple of times but I genuinely didn't watch it that much. Just the NFL on Sunday, big English games and a few Barca/Real Madrid games. I used to watch ESPN & ESPN America a bit when they were "free" to UPC customers too. When they were replace by BT/Setanta I went from having loads of sports channels to only having Eurosport in about 3 months.

We got rid of Sky movies at the same time and haven't regretted that one bit. Netflix and downloads is perfectly acceptable.

Our telly is mostly used for cartoons and the like at the weekends.

[Caolan]

For what it's worth I ditched it at the end of last season (the English season). Couldn't justify it.

Sky will point out you're not just paying for football so they won't ever drop their price.

FWIW I called up to cancel last November and they offered my a 40% discount for 12 months to stay (so for all my moaning I'm not paying full price currently)

Now thats a short term benefit and no doubt later this year it'll be back up to the full rate and I'll have a decision to make.

Dodge- out of interest, do you simply watch the games online? or take whatever game RTE are showing (as an Arsenal fan they always show Man U/ Liverpool/ Chelsea and show fuck all Liverpool)

[Dodge]

Dodge- out of interest, do you simply watch the games online? or take whatever game RTE are showing (as an Arsenal fan they always show Man U/ Liverpool/ Chelsea and show fuck all Liverpool)

I watch streams of the big EPL/ La Liga games and on CL nights I have a choice of RTE/TV3/Setanta/ITV. I don't follow any team so I'll more than likely get a game that interests me.

[Gaz]

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

That's only two more teams winning the league than in the PL-era. And in that time Norwich, Leeds, Newcastle, and Villa have challenged for the title.

Villa and Norwich's title challenge was in the very first PL season and neither ever challenged again - it obviously took time for Sky's money to drive the wedge between the top teams and the rest that exists now. It's debatable whether Leeds every truly challenged for the PL title but everything they did in the Ridsdale era was totally unsustainable unless they won the PL or CL every season. The Keegan era at Newcastle was mostly funded by John Hall shovelling tens of millions into the club and he hadn't the wealth to do that indefinitely.

Pre-premiership, by far the key determinant of any club's ability to challenge for top honours was the ability of its manager - the likes of Derby, Forest and Ipswich challenged because of Clough and Robson, not outspending everyone else around them. Today, the quality of manager only matters within a sub-group of 3 or 4 clubs that can afford to assemble and pay a squad costing/worth 200M+ - that's become the prerequisite for success and it's well beyond all bar a handful of clubs.

It's self-evident that 1) there's too much money in football, and 2) the way that money is distributed damages the game, but Dodge is right: the wealthiest club's always dominated. That's not new. The game was codified and professionalised in the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution. Money has always ruled the roost.

It's a matter of degree though. Twenty odd years ago there was a slope on the pitch, nowadays only 4 or 5 clubs are even allowed set foot on it.

As for Sky Sports, I reckon I'll be giving the red card soon myself, just don't watch enough games to justify having it. I believe this gizmo can be apped up to take a lot of the pain out of searching for and viewing live streams.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cBR3ZrurMKI

[Caolan]

also- the father in law got a Jail broken Apple TV 2- it has a thingymabobby on it for streaming live TV - the picture quality is about 85% (similar to streaming to your computer) - but its not bad considering its not costing €70pm.

I reckon once my discount goes I'll give the Sky the heave ho - I watch sports incessently, but like dodge I use my TV mainly for the kids and most of the stuff I ahve in teh evening is Sports or Movies/Box-sets.

[kdjac]

As for Sky Sports, I reckon I'll be giving the red card soon myself, just don't watch enough games to justify having it. I believe this gizmo can be apped up to take a lot of the pain out of searching for and viewing live streams.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cBR3ZrurMKI

Try this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057001096

Only downside is only 1 app can be loaded onto at a time.

There are others I have the chromecast which is pretty good.

[St. Robbie]

I love watching and going to Bundesliga league games,(for my trouble's I am a Munich 1860 fan )but its getting like England and Scotland boring.Money is ruining our game.

Yep, last 2 seasons have been very predictable, Bayern, Leverkusen and BVB in the top three already and it will stay that way, they're the strongest. Some bookies over here paid out on Bayern at Christmas.

One positive is that most of the Bundesliga teams are owned by fans. Two are financed by companies (Wolfsburg - Volkswagen, Leverkusen - Bayer)

[Slavia]

I get to Dynamo Dresden around 4/5 times a season, absolutely love it, amazing atmosphere. We never need to pay more than 15 quid for a ticket too, great price for it

[HofnerGaz]

The German season ticket/English match ticket comparison has been done to death but is that not what it boils down to? If Dortmund are only charging €11 into league games and are making Champions League finals, is that not the model to be followed?
As for Bayern getting a stadium handed to them by local government, even if they got it free why is that such a bad thing? Local government probably recognized the potential for success and invested for a long term return on all the weekenders and such that would be visiting not only the stadium, but the city as well. How many would the likes of Man City and Arsenal bring on Euro away trips? Couple of thousand? Maybe 5000 for as big a game as that? Great for the local economy.
Manchester City got handed the Etihad after the Commonwealth games, West Ham are in with a shout of the Olympic Stadium.

[Dodge]

The German season ticket/English match ticket comparison has been done to death but is that not what it boils down to? If Dortmund are only charging €11 into league games and are making Champions League finals, is that not the model to be followed?

There's no model club, ever.

Here's Dortmund's prices. Cheapest seat for an adult is €30

http://www.bvb.de/eng/Tickets/Seating-plan

[Caolan]

The German season ticket/English match ticket comparison has been done to death but is that not what it boils down to? If Dortmund are only charging €11 into league games and are making Champions League finals, is that not the model to be followed?
As for Bayern getting a stadium handed to them by local government, even if they got it free why is that such a bad thing? Local government probably recognized the potential for success and invested for a long term return on all the weekenders and such that would be visiting not only the stadium, but the city as well. How many would the likes of Man City and Arsenal bring on Euro away trips? Couple of thousand? Maybe 5000 for as big a game as that? Great for the local economy.
Manchester City got handed the Etihad after the Commonwealth games, West Ham are in with a shout of the Olympic Stadium.

Yup- absolutely correct on all counts - however my point is that financial doping/ FFP should include things like this.

For example, Arsenals Commercial Revenue for the past 5 seasons has been below Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, Man City and a few other mid table clubs - why? because they financed a stadium and to do that they took on massive debt and long term, poor value commercial deals- essentially to pay for this stadium Arsenal sold 1/2 marquee players every season. (Overmars, Petit, Anelka, Toure, Adebayor, Song, RVP, Henry, Fabregas, Viera etc) and didnt replace them - frankly its a miracle they remained competitive

Just for comparison, this season Arsenal will receive approx £4.5million from Nike, next season they will get £30million form Puma (Liverpool get £20mill from Warrior for past few years)- a forfeit of £25.5 million toward the cost of the stadium. There was a similar situation with Emirates and the shirt sponsorship, though figures werent released the value was increased by an estimated £15-20 million per year (hence we could afford to buy Ozil this season and I'd expect us to Add marquee signings each season going forward)

Man City, Bayern etc were effectively handed stadia for small amounts and benefited from Arsenals problems, Manchester City also benefitted unfairly. Liverpool are facing a similar problem now.

Local Governmetns backing clubs is nothing new (look at Real Madrid, AC Milan etc) - and the Bayern example is a perfect example of how its 100% the correct thing to do and good value for local govt - However..... it has given Bayern a financial advantage (probably worth £20-£40 million per year) over and above their competitors in the Bundesliga and Champions league.

Thats the bottom line, regardless of whats right, or makes sense, Bayern receive a value worth £20-£40 million per year over and above Dortmund etc which gives them a comptetitive, financial and commercial advantage and aids their dominance.

Anyway- thats my rant as a bitter Arsenal fan!

edit-

jsut a point to look closer to home at SRFC - they have beneffotted HUGELY from the council stadium, on their own they spend 20 years wanderinga nd winning nothing, rarely being competitive. then they go a free stadium and won 2 leagues and a rake of cups recently and (like it or not) drained other clubs of sponsorship, new fans and players.

If we didnt have Special K maintaining us, we would be fucked like Bohs and Shels - he (and Trevor Croly) is the only thing stopping Shams dominating Dublin.

Is this fair? is this technically financial doping?

On the flip side, is Special K our oligarch?

[Dodge]

BTW I'm not suggesting that Germany isn't cheaper than England. I'm just saying that there's some amount of BS written about German ticket prices.

[Rathfarnham_Saint]

Yup- absolutely correct on all counts - however my point is that financial doping/ FFP should include things like this.

For example, Arsenals Commercial Revenue for the past 5 seasons has been below Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, Man City and a few other mid table clubs - why? because they financed a stadium and to do that they took on massive debt and long term, poor value commercial deals- essentially to pay for this stadium Arsenal sold 1/2 marquee players every season. (Overmars, Petit, Anelka, Toure, Adebayor, Song, RVP, Henry, Fabregas, Viera etc) and didnt replace them - frankly its a miracle they remained competitive

Just for comparison, this season Arsenal will receive approx £4.5million from Nike, next season they will get £30million form Puma (Liverpool get £20mill from Warrior for past few years)- a forfeit of £25.5 million toward the cost of the stadium. There was a similar situation with Emirates and the shirt sponsorship, though figures werent released the value was increased by an estimated £15-20 million per year (hence we could afford to buy Ozil this season and I'd expect us to Add marquee signings each season going forward)
h?

This is why I'm a huge Wenger fan, I think he's a genius and won't be fully appreciated until he has left Arsenal

[HofnerGaz]

BTW I'm not suggesting that Germany isn't cheaper than England. I'm just saying that there's some amount of BS written about German ticket prices.

Ah yeah there probably is. I need to stop being so gullible. England can be alright though. Mate heads over to Old Trafford about once a month, went with him once and our seats 11 rows from the pitch, behind the goal were only £17 each. Granted that was only a game against Wolves and it would be substantially more for a glamour tie but still not bad for a premier league game.

[Dodge]

Ah yeah there probably is. I need to stop being so gullible. England can be alright though. Mate heads over to Old Trafford about once a month, went with him once and our seats 11 rows from the pitch, behind the goal were only £17 each. Granted that was only a game against Wolves and it would be substantially more for a glamour tie but still not bad for a premier league game.

http://www.manutd.com/en/Tickets-And...er-League.aspx

Cheapest adult prices for PL are £31 (if you're a member)

http://www.manutd.com/en/Tickets-And...er-League.aspx

[Gaz]

I need to stop being so gullible.

There's an app you can get now (Android only at the moment AFAIK) that tells you if something is true or not.

[HofnerGaz]

http://www.manutd.com/en/Tickets-And...er-League.aspx

Cheapest adult prices for PL are £31 (if you're a member)

http://www.manutd.com/en/Tickets-And...er-League.aspx

This was 2011 and they were definitely £17

[Dodge]

I didn't say there weren't. But seeing as I posted the current prices for Dortmund I thought i'd do the same for Utd

[St. Robbie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzc94bLgibw

Good documentary about Owen Heary and his career if anyone's interested

[St. Robbie]

Watched Arsenal vs FC Bayern last night, I know it's hard to judge from watching on TV but Mesut Özil was ridiculously bad. I know he won the penalty but in the second half he was non existent. I reckon Bayern will will the Champion's League, best team in it from what I've seen so far.

[dinnylowry]

Apparently Bayern Munich subsidised the their fans tickets for the game away with Arsenal last night: Arsenal ticket price was 64 sterling and Bayern Munich charged their fans 37 euro. Nice touch.

[augustiner]

BTW I'm not suggesting that Germany isn't cheaper than England. I'm just saying that there's some amount of BS written about German ticket prices.

Very true Dodge. I've been games all over Germany as an away fan and have paid between €8 and €15 for tickets that's usually for a standing area.

Seated tickets usually range from €25 to god knows. I did have a freebie for Bayern 3 years ago when they were shit and the value of the card was €65. I have seen tickets at face value at big games for €90+ and these are not VIP tickets.

The UK/Irish media selectively choose the standing area tickets which are normally always sold out at the bigger clubs to say German football is cheap. They never for instance take into account that people often pay member fees so they gain one of the cheaper season or mention that the prices on the side of the pitch can often be very high for a day or season ticket.

[Caolan]

Watched Arsenal vs FC Bayern last night, I know it's hard to judge from watching on TV but Mesut Özil was ridiculously bad. I know he won the penalty but in the second half he was non existent. I reckon Bayern will will the Champion's League, best team in it from what I've seen so far.

No doubt he isn't in the best form ever, but comments he is lazy/notbothered are h fair his "ground covered" stats were very strong and he was essentially playing left back after the sending off. No surprise he suffered.

He has recently been scapegoated for arsenals style of play, with no runners going beyond the last man we have struggled. The loss of Walcott and Ramsey has been huge and as a result we are fairly static and easy to defend against.

He is a class player and will come good!

[kdjac]

He is a class player and will come good!

For who????????????

[Caolan]

For who????????????

For Arsenal- his assit record is phenominal and despite people calling him lazy, there isnt a single stat to back that up (being a shite tacker doesnt mean your lazy)

In order to assist he needs someone in the right areas. Arsenal this season have been a mixed bag, some amazing passing goals (Wilshere and Rosicky scored some breathtaking ones), but alot of the victories have been laboured and a result of grinding down poor teams- its no surprise that when playing the better teams, with better concentration we have generally struggled without Walcott/Ramsey going beyond the last man.

[hoppo254]

For Arsenal- his assit record is phenominal and despite people calling him lazy, there isnt a single stat to back that up (being a shite tacker doesnt mean your lazy)

In order to assist he needs someone in the right areas. Arsenal this season have been a mixed bag, some amazing passing goals (Wilshere and Rosicky scored some breathtaking ones), but alot of the victories have been laboured and a result of grinding down poor teams- its no surprise that when playing the better teams, with better concentration we have generally struggled without Walcott/Ramsey going beyond the last man.

People laud Rooney for his work rate but on several occasions he hasn't tracked his man costing his team.

He didn't track Sidwell in the recent draw with fulham , he was to pick up Pirlo when England last played Italy and he was to pick up Busquets when the played Barca in Wembley.

I am sure Wenger knew Ozil wasn't a workhorse when he signed him. He is one of the best counterattacking players in Europe because he finds space to be an outlet when his team win the ball.

There is also a fitness issue. He hardly ever finished a game for Madrid and the pace of the premier league is faster than La Liga

[Dodge]

LOI preview for balls.ie

http://balls.ie/football/2014-sse-ai...eague-preview/

[TheSaintsno.12]

LOI preview for balls.ie

http://balls.ie/football/2014-sse-ai...eague-preview/

Is the Rodster wearing green shoes with brown laces ??

[TheSaintsno.12]

LOI preview for balls.ie

http://balls.ie/football/2014-sse-ai...eague-preview/

good work Dodge

[HofnerGaz]

Kerr and Fenlon on analysis and a studio actually as part of the stadium. Looks class (even though it's Rovers) Get someone better than Peter Collins presenting and that's a pretty good level of coverage.

As horrible a soulless and desolate kip the SDCC is, it does look good for football on TV.