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Thread: Anglo Irish Bank 700m Bond.

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    Peter Carpenter NoAlCalcioModerno's Avatar
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    Anglo Irish Bank 700m Bond.

    Nice to see Fine Gael and Labour blocking any debate or vote on the unguranteed Anglo bond which matured today. Among those blocking debate was Pat Nulty, winner of the Dublin West by-election.

    Upon his election Nulty was waving The Starry Plough around the count centre in Dublin West.Good to know the Irish Citizen Army risked their lives for Anglo.
    THE SEI.

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    As I said during the election the people I feel sorry for are the people who believe politicians. Labour sitting there while kenny's mob row back on promise after promise. Burton talking about cutting social welfare a while ago and sitting there while we pay unguaranteed bonds. A lesson there for anyone too young to have been old enough to have worked under a FG Lab gov. When push come to shove they are all the same.
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

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    What did Nulty do today?

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    What did Nulty do today?
    The Gov Parties blocked a debate on the issue. Murder in the Dail.






    Sinn Féin and United Left Alliance TDs walked out of the Dail in protest against the Government's decision not to hold a debate on the payment of €700 million to Anglo Irish Bank bondholders today.

    The Dáil voted on the Order of Business after some Opposition TDs sought a debate and a vote on the payment.

    That vote, and a walk through vote which followed, were both carried - meaning there would be no debate on the payment.

    Anger and frustration was palpable in the Dáil over the Government's decision to pay Anglo bondholders and not facilitate a debate on it.

    Independent Shane Ross asked the Taoiseach why the Government did not instruct Anglo Irish Bank to embark on a buy-back campaign of bonds.

    Sinn Féin were the first to leave the chamber, followed by members of the United Left Alliance, led by Richard Boyd Barrett.

    "You will not even give the parliament the right to vote on the handover of all the money you have taken out of the health service," said Mr Barrett.

    The Taoiseach said the Government, in discussions with the European Central Bank, sought to repudiate the situation with regard to bondholders, but the ECB would not give its consent.

    Mr Kenny said he was not one for hysterics and said if deputies wanted to walk out they were free to do so.

    The Taoiseach said he would love to say it was not necessary to pay the money, however when the Minister for Finance tried to negotiate with the ECB on the money it was not possible.

    "The position of the Government was clear in February when we were elected on a mandate to pursue growth and not default."

    He was responding to Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin who quoted Government party promises that Anglo would not get 'another red cent'.

    He said promises to burn the bondholders had driven down the price leading to a situation where today's bondholders were getting double the return on their investment.

    He accused the government of failing to put the issue on the negotiating table.

    The Taoiseach also told the Dáil he does not know the names of the bondholders who will benefit from today's payment.

    He was responding to Sinn Féin's Gerry Adams, who said there was a need for transparency.

    Deputy Adams asked the Taoiseach to get on the phone to the chairman of Anglo Irish Bank and tell him to withhold the payment.

    The Sinn Féin leader said the golden circle is still in place, citing the chairman's political allegiance as a former leader of Fine Gael who still keeps his TD pension and current salary.
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

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    Peter Carpenter NoAlCalcioModerno's Avatar
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    Disgrace.
    THE SEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    The Gov Parties blocked a debate on the issue. Murder in the Dail
    Right. Thought he did something more severe than vote with his party whip in his frst day on the job

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Wonder when the Unions will be organizing their protests at the Labour Gov?............
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    Right. Thought he did something more severe than vote with his party whip in his frst day on the job

    Voted to block a debate on giving over 700 million to a bank in the same week he raises the starry plough. Thats what integrity stands for now.
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Voted to block a debate on giving over 700 million to a bank in the same week he raises the starry plough. Thats what integrity stands for now.
    Oh I'm not defending him, I just thought he'd dome something more by the post above

    Isn't a poltician in the dail that hasn't raised a flag in vcitory and then acted against it...

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    Pat Kelch
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    Our young/youngish population have been too spoilt to take to the streets. Suspect a few 'arguments' on the street might focus a few minds!!

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    Oh I'm not defending him, I just thought he'd dome something more by the post above

    Isn't a poltician in the dail that hasn't raised a flag in vcitory and then acted against it...
    Doubt there's been such a C swing in such a short time. From Raving Socialist to bankers buddie in a week!
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    This government's policy as regards bank debt is exactly the same as that of the last one - to do whatever the ECB would like us to do. In fairness to this lot, the last Government led us so far down that road that the only real option now is to carry on with it. There's no point switching sides to the 'burn the bondholders' gang when you've already covered bondholders' losses to the tune of untold billions. The potential damage done by dirtying our bib now could far exceed the 1.7 Billion this will cost us (700m now, another 1 Billion in January).

    It's also disingenuous to represent this payment as an isolated case. Whatever we think of it, this payment is part of a policy of not burning bondholders. That policy got us our bailout (when we literally wouldn't have been able to borrow money anywhere else without bankrupting ourselves) and a sizeable reduction in our interest rate, down to a level that most economists believe is sustainable. We have just started to stabilise the fiscal system here, to risk that for the relatively small amount of less than 2 billion would be madness.

    Pointing out the hypocrisy and broken promises is fair game. Prattling on about the health service, welfare recipients blah blah blah is missing the point. We have, through our own recklessness, become completely indebted to the troika. We basically now have to do whatever they want us to and if we don't the consequences for all of us will be far worse than this - and it will be the aforementioned groups who will suffer most (as they always do). It isn't fair or right but it's where we're at. When you've made your bed, you have to lie in it.

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    Really really sickening position that we are in- but the alternative is where Greece are!

    Its a package deal- the ECB and co cannot let us fuck bondholders because it would have repercussions for all their banks who are barely (if even) hanging onto solvency. Its a big case on kicking the a major can down the road.

    Its thoroughly inconcievable that a population of a country is paying for the debts of a private institution - but thats what the state guarantee has got us into.

    At this stage the is vary little Lab & FG can do about it- its agreed, there is a payment plan and unfortunately he who pays the piper chooses the tune - and this tune is fucking horrific!

    I will never vote Lab and have my doubts over FG- but hands are tied on this one it seems.

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    Oh- and for the record- NOT burning bondholders has seen the cost of borrowing reduce from 12/13% down to above 6% last week (4-5% will allow us return to the bond markets)- despite the country running at losses of 30-40% total tax take

    the troika have forced awful things upon us, but the alternative is to keep spending until the day we go to the wall and no money comes out. They are the bloodflow which is allowing us work right now and the measures we have taken have given massive confidence internationally.

    IF greece take this bailout and Italy dont go bust- it is very fathomable we will be back to the markets soon, ok we have a massive debt on our back, but we can start making our own decision again.

    Yes the country has been shaken to its core - but we havent suffered anarchy or mayhem, 84% of the population are employed and while it will take about 10 years for alot of people in this country to "get their houses in order" (myself included) - when the country rights itself again it will have been one of the greatest fiscal/national achievements ever.

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    Can someone change the thread title , Anglo no longer exists

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    If hands are tied and we have to do it etc. (which is 100% true) Why do people continue to defend two parties who constantly lied to the people of this country saying we could burn bondholders just to get power. Anyone with half a brain knew we were tied in but still we got the opposition at the time giving us lie after lie just to gain power. Anybody remember Joan Burton shouting down bondholders etc every time a mic was stuck in her hideous face?

    I have no doubt whatsoever that if FG/LAB had been in power the last 15 years they would have folded to the same lobbyists/pressure groups the other shower did. The last 6 months has seen them carry on the exact same policies and probably lie as much too.


    Pat Nulty has just been on the radio saying he will vote against a motion to protect social welfare payments. Apparently protecting them was a corner stone of his election campaign....................
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

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    Peter Carpenter NoAlCalcioModerno's Avatar
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    Apparently 'no one has paid' for the crisis at Anglo. Well, we have now matey.

    Wonder when the Unions will be organizing their protests at the Labour Gov?............
    The cosy relationship between the union top-brass and the Labour Party really is unbelievable. Their silence is deafening.
    THE SEI.

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    Harry Boland kdjac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by connolly View Post
    Our young/youngish population have been too spoilt to take to the streets. Suspect a few 'arguments' on the street might focus a few minds!!
    Yet the radical approach of gaining employment seems lost on this generation.

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    Super Moderator Jimdagym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdjac View Post
    Yet the radical approach of gaining employment seems lost on this generation.
    Chuckle.....

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoAlCalcioModerno View Post



    The cosy relationship between the union top-brass and the Labour Party really is unbelievable. Their silence is deafening.
    Every bit as inappropriate as the builders with FF. We now have a situation where a Gov party is partly funded by a group the have to negotiate with on reform and a 20 billion per annum pay packet. Golden circles indeed.
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

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    Problem with politics is that someone has to elect them.

    Last 15 years was Bertie buying votes with give away budgets and election rigging/public partnership

    Is there a fairer way? I agree the othe parties would have done similar (just look at past election manifestos for proof)

    People wanted change and noone with an ounce of brain power believes enda or gilmores promises as they were obvious clap trap and pie in the sky.

    But people wanted change that badly that they voted for them anyway- the next 10/12 years will be very interesting politically.

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