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Thread: The Ireland national team thread

  1. #1111
    John McDonnell
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    It'll be Martin O'Neill's surely? Wouldn't mind him being the manager, have nothing against the style of football, as long as he's still "up for it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    So what's your point? Give Trap and Tardelli another two years because of the "great job, not good job, great job" that they've done?

    And for what it's worth del Bosque most definitely does pander to the media. Not that that's a good thing.

    My point is as long as idiots form opinion it will never change. One of the main agitators over the last 2 years hired Jeff Kenna ffs. Most others have either never managed or failed at it. The amount of complete bollox spouted by opinion makers is astonishing. Unfortunately people read it and appoint themselves as experts based on it. We've somewhere along the line turned into a nation of Rovers fans.
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  3. #1113
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    Think it's a bit rich of you to suggest that people only think Trapatoni is passed it because of the likes of Sadlier. Loads have been saying it since before he was appointed. You can't also claim that Trapatoni bowed to media pressure too much, and that's why he was sacked IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Play coleman they said.
    Play wilson they said.
    Play McCarthy they said.
    Play Walters they said.

    What it didn't work?
    Sack the manager he hasn't got a clue......They say........
    All 4 play worse for country than they do for club .. I think thats the biggest p[roblem with trap - his motivation is old school, he alienates modern day players who they they are the bee's knees.

    I've no problem with not playing Champagne football, but we seemed incapable of playing any kind of football, and our record of holding onto leads is horrific.

    stil lcant believe we hvaent besten a team ranked higher than us competitively since Holland in Landsdowne

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  6. #1115
    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    Think it's a bit rich of you to suggest that people only think Trapatoni is passed it because of the likes of Sadlier. Loads have been saying it since before he was appointed. You can't also claim that Trapatoni bowed to media pressure too much, and that's why he was sacked IMO
    Im not saying trap bowed to media pressure I'm saying the players the media wanted failed to qualify. Shines a light on the media's "knowledge"

    They ones saying trap was past it when he was appointed were still complaining as we qualified for the euros. Very roversesque.

    We produce one really good
    Golfer, Cyclist, Snooker player, Swimmer etc around every 30 years or so. Yet we have a group of people who expect us to have 15 or so top footballers at all times and if we dont its the national managers fault. If anyone thinks we should qualify for every tournament and go toe to toe with the best on the planet they need dropping off a tall building imo.

    We have a similar population to scotland. They have an infinitely better heritage in the game. We are miles ahead of them now but somehow we are failing in the eyes of many. They also have no GAA to compete with.

    If you think Ireland are failing at football read why england lose on penalties. Based on population and a few other variables we are consistantly in the top 7 or 8 on the planet.
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  7. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Im not saying trap bowed to media pressure I'm saying the players the media wanted failed to qualify. Shines a light on the media's "knowledge"

    They ones saying trap was past it when he was appointed were still complaining as we qualified for the euros. Very roversesque.

    We produce one really good
    Golfer, Cyclist, Snooker player, Swimmer etc around every 30 years or so. Yet we have a group of people who expect us to have 15 or so top footballers at all times and if we dont its the national managers fault. If anyone thinks we should qualify for every tournament and go toe to toe with the best on the planet they need dropping off a tall building imo.

    We have a similar population to scotland. They have an infinitely better heritage in the game. We are miles ahead of them now but somehow we are failing in the eyes of many. They also have no GAA to compete with.

    If you think Ireland are failing at football read why england lose on penalties. Based on population and a few other variables we are consistantly in the top 7 or 8 on the planet.
    I dont think people automatically expect qualification for every tournament, just a competitive record- we should be in contention for top 2 in every qualifying group.

    while we are missing 1/2 game changers, we can comfortably play 11 premiership players- the key is motivating and organising them.

    trap picked the players the public wanted (in the end) - but did he ever really believe in them, play a game suitable to them and motivate them?

    Professional football is built on the final percentages, Swansea can beat Man Utd, or at least make life really really difficult for them msot times they play- its about a manager getting a squad to do this.

    Wales, NI and Scotland are a bit behind us because they dont have the same number of top level players- we Do ahve a decent base (without any peaks)-

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  9. #1117
    Peter Carpenter
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    I
    Yet we have a group of people who expect us to have 15 or so top footballers at all times and if we dont its the national managers fault. If anyone thinks we should qualify for every tournament and go toe to toe with the best on the planet they need dropping off a tall building imo.

    .
    Only eejits expect us to qualify each time but this campaign we really should of done better. Sweden & Austria are like ourselves two average sides albeit from Zlatan & Alaba. We should be still in with a shout at this stage and imo we should be beating somebody like Austria but we didn't. And that stat about not beating anyone ranked higher than us at home since god knows when isn't good enough. The players seem scared to keep the ball on deck even though plenty of them do it at their clubs i.e Coleman, McCarthy, Long

  10. #1118
    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolan View Post

    stil lcant believe we hvaent besten a team ranked higher than us competitively since Holland in Landsdowne
    Depends on how you look at it. Did we overachieve then or have we failed since?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintAl View Post
    Only eejits expect us to qualify each time but this campaign we really should of done better. Sweden & Austria are like ourselves two average sides albeit from Zlatan & Alaba. We should be still in with a shout at this stage and imo we should be beating somebody like Austria but we didn't. And that stat about not beating anyone ranked higher than us at home since god knows when isn't good enough. The players seem scared to keep the ball on deck even though plenty of them do it at their clubs i.e Coleman, McCarthy, Long

    I think some of it stems from the current fad of 4-3-3 and total football. Ironically 4-4-2 is making a comeback god help us. I also firmly believe as somebody who coaches the mechanics of passing almost constantly we don't have a single player capable of doing it. Not one.

    That cant be rectified for a few days every 8 weeks or so on international duty so the manager will just play to the strenghts of the players available.
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    John McDonnell
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Yet we have a group of people who expect us to have 15 or so top footballers at all times and if we dont its the national managers fault. If anyone thinks we should qualify for every tournament and go toe to toe with the best on the planet they need dropping off a tall building imo.
    I genuinely don't believe anyone actually believes this. We've qualified for what, 2 tournaments in like 14 years or something?

  13. #1121
    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    I think some of it stems from the current fad of 4-3-3 and total football.
    It's not a fad if it has been the norm at all levels across the continent for 10 years. We've been playing variations of 4-3-3 since Pete Mahon took charge. And there's no inherent link to Total Football, which can just as easily be played with a 4-4-2 (Sacchi's Milan a case in point). Likewise 4-3-3/4-5-1/4-2-3-1 or any of its offshoots don't presuppose a passing game, as Mourinho and Benitiz among others have demonstrated to great effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    I also firmly believe as somebody who coaches the mechanics of passing almost constantly we don't have a single player capable of doing it. Not one.
    If I had such a low opinion of Irish footballers and what they're capable of I'd follow Rugby instead. Contrary to Robbie's bizarre press conference no-one expects us to have "80%" of the ball, but it's not unreaonable to expect us to have 40% of it. It's not unreaonable to expect that if Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson or whoever else has the ball at their feet that they are allowed to pass to McCarthy, Green or whoever instead of launching it to Keane or Long in the desperate hope that something may come of it. It's not unreasonable to expect that if Walters or Pilkington have the ball that instead of running head first into two opposition players they're allowed to cut inside and look for a teammate, even if that means - God forbid - passing the ball backwards because you trust your defenders enough to have a touch of the ball without having a panic attack.

    The problem is not and never was the players. Nor was it the media or "the great unwashed" or whatever other phantasmal agents you'd like to scapegoat. The problem was always Trap who despite achieving great things a long time ago was found completely out of touch with the modern game. And he made things worse than they needed to be by not treating the job with the respect it deserves, whether that be by not learning the language or not dealing with the players as professionally as he should have or in the worst instances insulting the league and the intelligence of Irish football fans by claiming to have done a great job as if 4th place in a group containing Austria and Sweden is punching above our weight.

    He's gone now. He got us to one finals out of three which isn't bad at all, but nothing to scream from the rooftops about. Best of luck to him, but I wouldn't be giving any future employers a glowing endorsement.

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  15. #1122
    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    It's not a fad if it has been the norm at all levels across the continent for 10 years. We've been playing variations of 4-3-3 since Pete Mahon took charge. And there's no inherent link to Total Football, which can just as easily be played with a 4-4-2 (Sacchi's Milan a case in point). Likewise 4-3-3/4-5-1/4-2-3-1 or any of its offshoots don't presuppose a passing game, as Mourinho and Benitiz among others have demonstrated to great effect.
    The phrase total football was coined by the dutch in the early 70s. Rinus micheals championed 4-3-3 in the 60s. Ironically trap would have played in the system as it was used by Italy in the early 60. (Adjusting to the Modern game indeed). Ajax use it to this day as its seen as the best development system due to the amount of passing triangles it creates on the pitch. Its widely regarded as the pure form of total football. Contrary to popular belief on the "spanish way" the Dutch fingerprint is all over Barcalona. We also played a variation of 4-3-3 in the 90s briefly and again under Johnny mc.





    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    If I had such a low opinion of Irish footballers and what they're capable of I'd follow Rugby instead. Contrary to Robbie's bizarre press conference no-one expects us to have "80%" of the ball, but it's not unreaonable to expect us to have 40% of it. It's not unreaonable to expect that if Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson or whoever else has the ball at their feet that they are allowed to pass to McCarthy, Green or whoever instead of launching it to Keane or Long in the desperate hope that something may come of it. It's not unreasonable to expect that if Walters or Pilkington have the ball that instead of running head first into two opposition players they're allowed to cut inside and look for a teammate, even if that means - God forbid - passing the ball backwards because you trust your defenders enough to have a touch of the ball without having a panic attack.

    The problem is not and never was the players. Nor was it the media or "the great unwashed" or whatever other phantasmal agents you'd like to scapegoat. The problem was always Trap who despite achieving great things a long time ago was found completely out of touch with the modern game. And he made things worse than they needed to be by not treating the job with the respect it deserves, whether that be by not learning the language or not dealing with the players as professionally as he should have or in the worst instances insulting the league and the intelligence of Irish football fans by claiming to have done a great job as if 4th place in a group containing Austria and Sweden is punching above our weight.

    He's gone now. He got us to one finals out of three which isn't bad at all, but nothing to scream from the rooftops about. Best of luck to him, but I wouldn't be giving any future employers a glowing endorsement.

    All I can say is if passing football is about the player on the ball giving it to somebody near him we are in big trouble. Even somebody as limited as me would relish playing against a team who passes a ball to John o Shea or Paul Green 20 yards from goal. Or Glenn Whelan or anybody else playing for us for that matter. Passing a ball is a tiny part of playing a passing game.

    A good player doesn't just look to pass a ball. A child can pass a ball. A good player is always available to receive it. How many Iniestas do we have???? This is the key factor to us playing a passing game.

    Asking our national players to cut inside to a congested midfield and pass it or whatever is simplistic in the extreme and also flawed in the extreme. Im also sure traps future employment plans won't hinge on your endorsement with all due respect.

    Wales try to play nice football. They are shite but.
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  16. #1123
    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antomorro View Post
    I genuinely don't believe anyone actually believes this. We've qualified for what, 2 tournaments in like 14 years or something?

    Have a read of this thread from around last may and june......

    "we should go to tournaments to win them" was the battle cry of the roy keane brigade about 10 years ago. Loopers.
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  17. #1124
    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    The phrase total football was coined by the dutch in the early 70s. Rinus micheals championed 4-3-3 in the 60s. Ironically trap would have played in the system as it was used by Italy in the early 60. (Adjusting to the Modern game indeed). Ajax use it to this day as its seen as the best development system due to the amount of passing triangles it creates on the pitch. Its widely regarded as the pure form of total football. Contrary to popular belief on the "spanish way" the Dutch fingerprint is all over Barcalona. We also played a variation of 4-3-3 in the 90s briefly and again under Johnny mc.
    That whole paragraph is a non sequitur. You implied that 4-3-3 and Total Football are one and the same. I pointed out that they're not. Most teams across Europe play something resembling 4-3-3. Why? (That's rhetorical). Most teams certainly don't play Total Football.



    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    How many Iniestas do we have????
    Your entire argument is summed up here, and it'd be a fair enough question if people were claiming we should be winning tournaments nevermind qualifiying for them or even, for that matter, being competetive in qualifying for them. The answer, by the way, is none - we don't have any Iniestas and we're unlikely to have one any time soon. But that's entirely irrelevant to what's being discussed. Did Trap's 1.2m a year contract stipulate that we had win the Euros or World Cup? Did he sign it under the illusion that Iniesta was from Ballymullen or Tubercurry?

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    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    That whole paragraph is a non sequitur. You implied that 4-3-3 and Total Football are one and the same. I pointed out that they're not. Most teams across Europe play something resembling 4-3-3. Why? (That's rhetorical). Most teams certainly don't play Total Football.
    It implys total football in synonymous with 4-3-3. The term Total football is practically a trademark at this stage and was invented for michels Dutch. Nobody else. You said in your previous reply total football can be played in a 4-4-2. This is false. I simply explained the origins of total football and its cultural heritage.





    Your entire argument is summed up here, and it'd be a fair enough question if people were claiming we should be winning tournaments nevermind qualifiying for them or even, for that matter, being competetive in qualifying for them. The answer, by the way, is none - we don't have any Iniestas and we're unlikely to have one any time soon. But that's entirely irrelevant to what's being discussed. Did Trap's 1.2m a year contract stipulate that we had win the Euros or World Cup? Did he sign it under the illusion that Iniesta was from Ballymullen or Tubercurry?

    Sorry but I don't understand where that paragraph is going. You were talking about players simply passing a football around. I don't believe we have anybody who is naturally comfortable on a ball. The the quality of our ball retention is dreadful. Players constantly taking the wrong options. Poor decision making. Lack of obvious options. Its all there in abundance. We have wingers who dribble with the foot nearest the defender. A good manager plays to his strengths and I firmly believe if we tried to play a different game under trap we would have ended up like Scotland and wales. We ain't brilliant by any stretch but he got the best out of a very bad bunch imo. Oh and lots calling for Martin O Neill, if people value flair over substance its going to be a long next few years....
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  19. #1126
    Ricky O'Flaherty
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    Trap's biggest failure was that he didn't do anything to make it seem like he gave a damn about the job. He was on a very good salary and spent his year hanging out in Italy. He couldn't be arsed learning to speak the language that all of his players and all of the supporters speak. He couldn't be arsed going to watch his players play and on top of that seemed to have no respect for them. You could field a decent team of players that he fell out with. In addition to this the football he has the team playing is pretty much unwatchable. While Ireland have always been way behind Pats in terms of my interests, I've generally watched most of the competitive games down through the years. This week I've found myself not bothering to watch either of two very important qualifying games because I get annoyed with how awful he has us playing and how he's taking the whole country for a ride turning up for a few games and pocketing money that could go a long way in junior or League of Ireland football. We've given this chancer somewhere in the region of 7-10 million in his 5 years and I'd be really interested to see just how many days work he's put in for that. That money would go a long way in improving facilities for LoI clubs. To be honest I preferred Staunton.
    The empty seats at the Aviva, despite much lower ticket prices, show that Trap has driven huge numbers of genuine fans away from the international team. Delighted he's gone. Now if we could just get rid of the other overpaid chancer that hired him.

  20. #1127
    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    It implys total football in synonymous with 4-3-3. The term Total football is practically a trademark at this stage and was invented for michels Dutch. Nobody else. You said in your previous reply total football can be played in a 4-4-2. This is false. I simply explained the origins of total football and its cultural heritage.

    You're right here. I worded it badly, but your initial post suggested that 4-3-3 equals Total Football. As it goes, for all the criticism of Trap's insistance on 4-4-2 (and worse, his argument that the players can't play any other way despite almost all of them playing some form of 4-5-1 week-in week-out), have any of his critics - the ones who earn their living from football - ever called for something as fantastical as Total Football? I don't think so. The argument against 4-4-2 was won a long time ago at international and club level. There are plenty of reasons for that and they have little to do with aesthetics.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Sorry but I don't understand where that paragraph is going. You were talking about players simply passing a football around... We ain't brilliant by any stretch but he got the best out of a very bad bunch imo.
    Well, you're talking about Total Football and Iniesta when nobody has else has mentioned Total Football or Iniesta. I can't speak for anyone else, but I want to see us play constructive football that has a purpose and relies on skill rather than luck to get results. We - like every other country bar San Marino, Andorra, Faroes (you know, the ones with no leagues) - have the players to do that. It's the way ever single team with a competent manager plays. It's certainly the way Bucko's teams play. It's the way Pete Mahon's side played. It's the way Mourinho's teams play and Guardiola's play, Stephen Kenny's teams, Brendan Rogers' teams, Sam Allardyce's teams. In other words, player X knows he has a certain job to do because it has been communicated to him, and more than that he understand why he has to do it, how it helps the team and how it increases the team's chances of getting the right results.

  21. #1128
    Paul McGrath
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    Piece from Kerr today in the Irish Times. Worth a read but nothing insightful. http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/the-next-boss-must-integrate-himself-into-irish-football-1.1524208



    Thought this from Paul Doyle in today's Guardian was the best of the post mortems doing the rounds.


    It was the absence of hope that killed you. The premise underlying almost everything Giovanni Trapattoni did as Republic of Ireland manager was that the players at his disposal were rubbish and could not be expected to beat anyone decent. That proved a self-fulfilling dogma. In his five years in charge Ireland did not win a single competitive match against a team ranked above them and watching them set out as if convinced they never would became unbearable.

    This was alienating and aggravating. Here was a population reared to believe in the potential heroism of the underdog abruptly being told to know its station. There is realism and then there is defeatism. Trapattoni sometimes talked big, but his tactics and selections betrayed how little he thought of Ireland. He saw the shambles that he inherited from Steve Staunton in 2008 and, in fairness, introduced a basic structural soundness, but he never saw beyond that, refused to contemplate a scenario in which Ireland could play not only with grit but also with a hint of wit.

    Of course, Ireland boasts no geniuses who could have guaranteed better results and performances. A key difference between their World Cup qualifying group rivals Sweden and Austria is that the former have Zlatan Ibrahimovic and the latter have David Alaba, while Ireland have no one even close to that calibre. Still, over the past five years the county has had a clutch of players who have deserved better recognition from their manager. Wes Hoolahan, Robbie Brady, Andy Reid, Shane Long, Steven Reid and Seamus Coleman hardly world-class, but surely worthy of more astute nurturing when we consider some of the lesser talents that Trapattoni indulged instead.

    It is fitting that his last act as manager, during Tuesday's baleful defeat in Austria, was to introduce Conor Sammon as a substitute, while Hoolahan and Brady were ignored like untrustworthy dilettante, with their highfalutin' notions of passing and playing what was in front of them rather than what was drummed into them by a manager who remained stubborn enough to believe that things would turn out as he foresaw no matter what was unfolding before his eyes. His inability to alter games with his substitutions or tactical changes reflected a perverse intransigence so strong as to be almost admirable.

    He lasted so long because, in addition to organisational cohesion and engaging charisma, he enjoyed an attribute that the country's best manager in recent times, Mick McCarthy, famously lacked: luck. Outrageous fortune in the form of several beneficial refereeing decisions helped Ireland get to the brink of the 2010 World Cup finals, which is why it was so ironic that the team's most accomplished performance in his entire reign the 1-1 draw in Paris in the play-offs was undone by Thierry Henry's infamous handball.

    It turned out that the first leg of that play-off the lacklustre 1-0 defeat in Dublin was a truer indicator of what Trapattoni would bring, a bleak passivity that made visiting teams surprisingly welcome and home supporters uncharacteristically subdued. Difficult to beat away, Ireland found it impossible to win key games at home. In the past Ireland could at least inflict a hostile reception on visitors, but under Trapattoni, Russia, Sweden and Germany all helped themselves to comfortable victories while Austria, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Montenegro and others earned easy draws. Trapattoni's greatest achievement with Ireland was made possible by the kindness of the draw the Euro 2012 play-off pitting Ireland against an inexperienced Estonia team who immediately imploded and the manager turned that into a monumental humiliation by going to the Euros with the wrong squad and one ill-fitting plan.

    On a personal level Trapattoni came across as a driven and affable man with great integrity, which is why there is no joy in reporting his departure. But on a professional level, the sheer desolateness of his vision meant there would have certainly been no joy in watching him continue.

    As for his successor, there is no outstanding candidate, no supernatural being who could make Ireland certainties to reach major finals and not look like goofy gatecrashers. But the first criterion that the Football Association of Ireland should set is that, just as the Italian's rigidity provided respite from Staunton's chaos, the new manager must salve the damage done by Trapattoni's nihilism. Brian McDermott, for instance, has a record of forging well-balanced and enterprising sides from modest resources. "The big thing I said to the players is you have to get on the ball and make things happen," he said after Leeds United's recent loss to Queens Park Rangers. "Just try something different." Only by that sort of risk-taking and a lot of luck can a country with little resources, and a deep systemic failure reflected in a largely unloved domestic league, enjoy international success.

  22. #1129
    Administrator Slavia's Avatar
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    Hughton & McDermott ruled out

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    Dropped to 59th in the rankings, wales and cape verde islands are ahead of us
    We All Dream Of A Team Of Curly Wurly's!!! A Team Of Curly Wurly's!!! A Team Of Curly Wurly's!!!

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    Martin Russell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    Hughton & McDermott ruled out
    No suprise there. Hard to look past the FAI giving it to O'Neill.

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    no idea how wales are ahead of us but whatever
    With Bucka to lead us sure no one could beat us!

  26. #1133
    John McDonnell
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintjoey View Post
    no idea how wales are ahead of us but whatever
    Probably because they have a domestic league...........

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  28. #1134
    Administrator Slavia's Avatar
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    Germany game

    Gibson, Andy Reid and Stokes in, O'Dea, Sammon and Cox out. Kevin Doyle back too

    http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...d?ICID=HP_HN_1



    Stokes and Doyle shouldn't be there IMO, delighted to see Gibson back though

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    Stokes is playing well in fairness
    Never relegated

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    Robbie Brady has pulled out of both games

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    John McDonnell
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoppo254 View Post
    Stokes is playing well in fairness
    Yeah, for Shamrock Rovers

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    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    Gibson, Andy Reid and Stokes in, O'Dea, Sammon and Cox out. Kevin Doyle back too

    http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...d?ICID=HP_HN_1



    Stokes and Doyle shouldn't be there IMO, delighted to see Gibson back though
    Agree on Doyle. Burned brightly for about 18 months, mediocre for 3 years, then dog shit for 18 months.

    Have to say, you're way off on Stokes. He's head and shoulders above most of the strikers who have been in and around the squad since his exclusion. At the very least, he deserves to be in the squad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post

    Have to say, you're way off on Stokes. He's head and shoulders above most of the strikers who have been in and around the squad


    Way off? He plays in the SPL, championship is a far higher standard than that IMO, it's a par with League 1 or 2 in England

    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    since his exclusion.


    Exclusion? You mean when he said he was too tired to play for Ireland?

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    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    Way off? He plays in the SPL, championship is a far higher standard than that IMO, it's a par with League 1 or 2 in England





    Yes, I think you're way off, even more so now with your likening of the SPL to league 1 or 2 as if he plays for Kilmarnock or St. Mirren. Let's see how gets on tonight against Barca. I'd imagine he'll cause more problems than, say, Connor Sammon, Simon Cox, or Paddy Madden would. You must think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post

    Exclusion? You mean when he said he was too tired to play for Ireland?
    Now you're being silly.

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