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Thread: The Ireland national team thread

  1. #931
    John McDonnell yorkiesaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    U21's are 3-0 up on Holland with 10 minutes left, they've improved greatly under Noel King
    Finished 3-0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    U21's are 3-0 up on Holland with 10 minutes left, they've improved greatly under Noel King
    Yeah he's doing a great job. fair play to him for including Forrester as he hadn't kicked a ball in 3 months

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintly View Post
    Yeah he's doing a great job. fair play to him for including Forrester as he hadn't kicked a ball in 3 months
    And he hadn't been in King's squds last year either. means he wasn't thinking "this is my squad and that's that"

    Was the time they beat italy the last game?
    "We've seen you come, we'll see you go"

  4. #934
    Martin Russell
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    Went to the 21's game earlier. Great to see Forrester play. Theres no way that was the first choice Holland team, they were absolutely hopeless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    And he hadn't been in King's squds last year either. means he wasn't thinking "this is my squad and that's that"

    Was the time they beat italy the last game?
    Yeah think so.

    Obviously the Dutch don't put much importance into underage results but still a great coupe of wins

  6. #936
    Curtis Fleming
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    So the ref tonight is the Belgian guy who did our home game with Shaktar Karagandy?

  7. #937
    Administrator Slavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donohoe'd and Dusted View Post
    It doesnt matter what team Trap puts out none of them are good enough to beat the Polish. they will walk us imo.


    Like I said, seriously over rated

  8. #938
    Administrator Slavia's Avatar
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    I'd say Westwood must be nervous now about his chances of starting in Sweden. Forde done well last night IMO

    Paul Green had a very good game when he came on too, as did Hoolahan. Clarke was solid too

    McClean non existent yet again, now he is something that is over rated

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    I'd say Westwood must be nervous now about his chances of starting in Sweden. Forde done well last night IMO

    Paul Green had a very good game when he came on too, as did Hoolahan. Clarke was solid too

    McClean non existent yet again, now he is something that is over rated
    Hmmmm- thought forde looked ropey for a lot of things.

    Nearly cost us a couple of goals with wayward clearances (one the polish fella missed from 12 yds)

    Not convincing at all on most crosses when penalty area was packed.

    I guess we've been spoilt with shay for so long. Still think Westwood is a better keeper despite not playing.

  10. #940
    Administrator Slavia's Avatar
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    I still think Westwood is a better keeper too, but Trap seems to be banging on a lot about Westwood not getting a game at Sunderland, and with that, I felt if Westwood was gonna start against Sweden, Trap would've given him some game time last night as he is still fairly new to the national team

  11. #941
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    Nice to win and all, but before the game I was listening to the radio and Kenny Cunningham (who I think is an excellent pundit) was saying how there's no point in sitting back, going long and defending a 1-0 lead. Well, that's kind of exactly what we did. We could and perhaps should have been 1-0 down going into half time but Forde made a good save (I don't rate him at all).

    I just think the football being played doesn't suit so many of our young players. I guarantee if we played a more attacking style, the likes of McLean, McGeady, Long, Hoolihan and Brady would be a lot more effective. Long is every bit as good of a footballer as Robbie Keane, maybe he isn't as much of a poacher but he's still a great player. These lads are being wasted and given the wrong psyche by trap and I for one and beginning to get frustrated at watching the mediocrity that is being displayed due to stubborn tactics.

    These guys are the nations future and with young blood coming in they are being poisoned with this long ball malark. It's not even long ball which is aimed or actually used as an asset. We hoof the ball long, in no particular direction, surrendering posession. Frustrates the life out of me.

    Delighted for Hoolihan to score, fairly muted celebration from Trap.

  12. #942
    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    I'd say Westwood must be nervous now about his chances of starting in Sweden. Forde done well last night IMO

    Paul Green had a very good game when he came on too, as did Hoolahan. Clarke was solid too

    McClean non existent yet again, now he is something that is over rated
    Very harsh on McClean. No way was his performance bad enough to be singled out. He was no more or less impressive than Brady, who is a great prospect for his.

    Clark is a class act with the ball at his feet. Probably needs more of a no-nonsense type defender alongside him than O'Shea. Wilson maybe.

    And I'd be very worried about Forde starting a competitve game. If playing first team football is a pre-requisite for selection, Paddy Kenny should at the very least be back in the squad.

  13. #943
    John McDonnell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavia View Post
    Like I said, seriously over rated
    haha very suprised with the result...

    Did Pilkington feature?

  14. #944
    Administrator Slavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donohoe'd and Dusted View Post
    haha very suprised with the result...

    Did Pilkington feature?



    He got injured last week playing for Norwich

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    Very harsh on McClean. No way was his performance bad enough to be singled out. He was no more or less impressive than Brady, who is a great prospect for his.

    Clark is a class act with the ball at his feet. Probably needs more of a no-nonsense type defender alongside him than O'Shea. Wilson maybe.

    And I'd be very worried about Forde starting a competitve game. If playing first team football is a pre-requisite for selection, Paddy Kenny should at the very least be back in the squad.
    I get the feeling McClean is just reverting back to a level you would expect for a young LOI player going straight into the premiership.

    People forget his age and lack of experience. I am sure once he is given time he will be an asset. I seem to remember Kilbane having a slow start in a green shirt
    Never relegated

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    McClean had a season in the LOI first division, half a season in the Premier Division, half a season in Sunderland's reserves (if they have any) and then BAM!, Premier League regular. its bound to take time to adjust.

    He's still playing regularly in the EPL and for all his faults he does bringa directness I like in wingers
    "We've seen you come, we'll see you go"

  17. #947
    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post

    He's still playing regularly in the EPL and for all his faults he does bringa directness I like in wingers
    Interesting you mention that, I was doing a coaching seminar a few weeks ago and the subject of 'wingers' came up. I love 4-3-3 and have not problem by and large with my front three interchanging. We were discussing how the role is evolving.



    1) The traditional winger. (flying winger)

    There's still the majority but their job is down the line, look up and if the route is blocked pass to the full back or bang it across. James Milner was the example given.
    Beckham for me was the most obvious exponent when he was with Utd.

    2) The evolving winger.

    A player who has more of a free licence. He gets the ball wide and if his route is blocked he drifts inside across the defence and draws out opposition players. Then he has wall pass and little slide rule balls in behind as options. David Silva was the example given.

    Barcalona for me base their game on example two. No point in them whipping in crosses.

    Interesting stuff I thought as if Ireland are to turn into the passing side people want these type of intelligent players are essential. (and we are trying to produce them)
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

  18. #948
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    Don't think you could ever describe Milner or Beckham as flying wingers in fairness. but yeah, there's clearly a lof ot subtlety in how different teams and players approach the position
    "We've seen you come, we'll see you go"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    Don't think you could ever describe Milner or Beckham as flying wingers in fairness. but yeah, there's clearly a lof ot subtlety in how different teams and players approach the position

    They aint subtleties they are cornerstones. The difference is as stark as Ronaldo and Stephen Hunt.
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    There must be bleeding subtleties if you think Beckham was every a flying winger
    "We've seen you come, we'll see you go"

  21. #951
    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post

    2) The evolving winger.

    A player who has more of a free licence. He gets the ball wide and if his route is blocked he drifts inside across the defence and draws out opposition players. Then he has wall pass and little slide rule balls in behind as options. David Silva was the example given.

    I don't see that as being a new concept at all. Silva is stronger on his left foot but usually plays on the right. Therefore he's more inclined to come inside than go down the line. The same goes for Mata. Overmars, Pires and Ginola were all right-footed left wingers, and they all did the same.

  22. #952
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    our problem is we play a long ball game- the likes of stoek etc play a long pass game and its based arounda water tights defense and super quick def to attack.

    We on the other hand hoof the ball aimlessly and regualrly get it nowhere near our players, hence losing possession over and over.

    Long passes require the correct pace and trajectory to be effective and allow teh forward players bring their team mates into the game. at international level the likes of Long and Walters arent good enough to win a high enough % of hoofed balls.

  23. #953
    Paul McGrath
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoppo254 View Post
    I seem to remember Kilbane having a slow start in a green shirt
    A lot of the criticism Kilbane took at first was probably down to him getting in ahead of Duff. Granted, Duffer was eventually pushed up front with Robbie, but I'd guess a lot of people's preferred XI at the time would have had Duff out wide with Quinn alongside Keane.

    I think Moyes was the first to him into the middle, and Kerr did the same. That's when we saw the best of him.

  24. #954
    Mbabazi AlanMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    I don't see that as being a new concept at all. Silva is stronger on his left foot but usually plays on the right. Therefore he's more inclined to come inside than go down the line. The same goes for Mata. Overmars, Pires and Ginola were all right-footed left wingers, and they all did the same.


    Its not new. Nothing anybody does in new regardless of what people think. Barca do what AJAX done in 1971 albeit probably not with the same purity as AJAX.

    What is new however is its becoming the standard for wide players. It was a more specialised role years ago. Ray Houghton was brilliant at it 20 years ago.



    Clubs in Ireland like St Kevins are teaching kids to dribble with both feet from 5 years old now. No more left footers cutting in on the right etc. Genuine Interchangeable footballers who can go down either wing or cut in on either wing.

    Think there were three kids in the squad last night from kevins which is testament to the stuff they are working on.


    The reason I put flying winger in brackets is it was a very similar role to the genuine wide man who could get to the byline and whip in a cross.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Its not new. Nothing anybody does in new regardless of what people think. Barca do what AJAX done in 1971 albeit probably not with the same purity as AJAX.

    What is new however is its becoming the standard for wide players. It was a more specialised role years ago. Ray Houghton was brilliant at it 20 years ago.



    Clubs in Ireland like St Kevins are teaching kids to dribble with both feet from 5 years old now. No more left footers cutting in on the right etc. Genuine Interchangeable footballers who can go down either wing or cut in on either wing.

    Think there were three kids in the squad last night from kevins which is testament to the stuff they are working on.


    The reason I put flying winger in brackets is it was a very similar role to the genuine wide man who could get to the byline and whip in a cross.
    Decent article here:

    The 30 Greatest Right Wingers / Wide Midfielders of All Time
    Shirt number: 7

    The role of the winger, or wide midfielder, has changed considerably over the years. Originally the job was well-defined, and crucial to the team's creativity: stay close to the touchline, dribble past the full-back and float in a cross for the centre-forward (as exemplified by Sir Stanley Matthews). The greatest wingers have always scored a healthy amount of goals too, sometimes a staggering amount given their position. The heyday of the traditional winger lasted until the 1960s. After that Alf Ramsey's 4-4-2 and the Italian catenaccio defence changed everything. The winger was either removed all together - leaving the midfield narrow and relying on full-backs for width; or they were replaced with 'wide midfielders' - players who had to tuck in and help in midfield as well as getting forward and wide with the ball when in possession, often using pace and one-to-ones rather than dribbling to get past players, and putting crosses in when they had chance (for example this was the style of David Beckham). The 4-3-3 system, popular in the 1970s, had either only one winger in a lop-sided formation (i.e. Garrincha for Brazil in 1962 or Overmars for Arsenal in 1996/97) or two wingers who also had to take it in turns to come inside to support a lone striker when the opposite winger stayed wide. Now, with the modern variation of 4-3-3 the winger also has to drop back when needed to help the midfield (as used by Mourinho's Chelsea). Coaches will often choose to play a great goalscoring winger as a central striker in order to maximise their contribution, although this is not their natural position and can sometimes restrict their game (a case in point with Cristiano Ronaldo).

    With the newly popular 4-2-3-1 though the traditional winger is making something of a return. Able to stay forward, these players are defintely forwards rather than midfielders and are often not required to track back (for example Ronaldinho, Neymar or Ronaldo). However, these new wingers are now more likely to cut inside and make runs into the box rather than hugging the touchline to put crosses in; the crossing job is often left for the full-back. These new wingers are often played on their 'wrong' sides (i.e. right footed players on the left and vice versa) to reflect this new role (i.e. as in 2009/10 by Mancini at Manchester City or van Gaal at Bayern Munich with Robben and Ribery). Wingers are becoming important again in the game and scoring many goals themselves in addition to setting up chances for others, and this can be seen by the goal tallies of players like Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi (who began as a right winger before being moved to a more central position). Throughout all these changes wingers have been probably the most exciting players on the pitch, doing what they do best: moving the ball at pace and using their skill to dribble past opponents and creating goal-scoring chances.
    http://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/right-wingers.html

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  27. #956
    Packie Lynch
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleguer presas i renom View Post
    I don't see that as being a new concept at all. Silva is stronger on his left foot but usually plays on the right. Therefore he's more inclined to come inside than go down the line. The same goes for Mata. Overmars, Pires and Ginola were all right-footed left wingers, and they all did the same.
    Overmars was left footed and played from the left.

    Alan is right in there is now a trend towards the inverted winger that drives infield and has come about due to the evolving nature of the full back position.

    Full backs have now become an attacking outlet thus by playing a left footed winger on the right you create space for the full back to drive into - Danni Alves / Messi at Barcelona being the easiest example.

    Inverting the wingers also has another function due to the evolving nature of possession football. Wingers now become involved centrally creating a greater opportunity for short, controlled passing and the devaluation of the hulking awkward target man (Andy Carroll)

    There are two theories of thought on the 4-3-3 system , the first being a central stong target man to act as a fulcrum who holds up play while the winger stay wide and stretch the pitch. They may be asked to provide crosses (This was partly the reason zlatan was brought into barca a few years ago to provide a change of tact).

    The second theory involved a narrower front 3 with often interchanging strikers/wingers not needing a fulcrum. This makes the system more fluid and harder to defend against.

    Barca often play a combination of both systems , with one inverted winger (used to be messi but now perhaps adriano or iniesta) and an old school winger who stretchs play like pedro.

    Oh and the best example of an old style winger for me today is antonio valencia at man utd.
    Last edited by hoppo254; 7th February 2013 at 09:47 PM.
    Never relegated

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    Good article that if generalising a little. The next level of the evolution is the true two footed winger. Even in that article they talk about left footers playing on the right to cut in and visa versa which is getting a little outdated in modern development. Traditionally the thinking was if a player cuts in from the 'wrong' side he's dribbling with the foot furthest from the defenders therefore protecting it. Im probably not explaining this very well but Imagine a player who can go down the left dribbling with his left foot as to protect it. Then he switches wings and can go down the right wing with his right foot to protect it. When he's cuts in from either side he's still protecting it. No more wingers, no more rigid formation just front three's moving everywhere.
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  29. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Good article that if generalising a little. The next level of the evolution is the true two footed winger. Even in that article they talk about left footers playing on the right to cut in and visa versa which is getting a little outdated in modern development. Traditionally the thinking was if a player cuts in from the 'wrong' side he's dribbling with the foot furthest from the defenders therefore protecting it. Im probably not explaining this very well but Imagine a player who can go down the left dribbling with his left foot as to protect it. Then he switches wings and can go down the right wing with his right foot to protect it. When he's cuts in from either side he's still protecting it. No more wingers, no more rigid formation just front three's moving everywhere.

    The was something fergie was after with his front 3 of Ronaldo,Rooney and Tevez.

    Having two footed players is a nice dream but im not sure if it entirley possible.

    Some of the world best players are considered two footed but have natural preference for a stronger side. Sneider and van der vart where spoken about as two of the most two footed players to come out of holland in recent history. Both still show a preference for one side over the other.
    Never relegated

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    Stephen Kelly the latest to throw a childish strop..........

    “It is extremely disappointing for me to have to make this statement. I am simply shocked and disgusted with the untrue and unwarranted comments made by Giovanni Trapattoni.
    “These hurtful and untrue comments have caused distress and upset to myself and my family who have supported me throughout my career and know the level of commitment and passion I have always shown in representing my country.
    “I have proudly represented Ireland from the age of 16, and I have never shown anything other than 100% commitment to my country and my team.
    “I cannot and will not tolerate attempts to defame my commitment and loyalty to Ireland.
    “Representing Ireland at senior international level has given me some of my proudest moments in my professional career, and for me captaining my country will always be my greatest achievement.
    “It saddens me greatly that I should have to defend my good character and reputation in a profession I love, however, I refuse to allow anyone to question my passion for representing Ireland.
    “I will continue as always to proudly be available for my country.”


    Strange that. Doesn't sound like the type of player who would refuse to board a plain to the Faroes.....................
    I used to know it all, Now I'm going to school.

  31. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    Stephen Kelly the latest to throw a childish strop..........





    Strange that. Doesn't sound like the type of player who would refuse to board a plain to the Faroes.....................
    He didn't refuse to board a plane. He asked Trap to clarify why Coleman was ahead of him. Trap did (and was right in his reasoning). And Kelly said he wasn't happy.

    Have had enough of Trap tbh. Too many good players out in the cold and too much baggage. He did a superb job but its time move on.

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